Customerland
Customerland is a podcast about …. Customers. How to get more of them. How to keep them. What makes them tick. We talk to the experts, the technologies and occasionally, actual people – you know, customers – to find out what they’re all about.So if you’re a CX pro, a loyalty marketer, a brand owner, an agency planner … if you’re a CRM & personalization geek, if you’re a customer service / CSAT / NPS nerd – you finally have a home.
Customerland
Loyalty Programs That Actually Work: A SAP CX Perspective
What happens when traditional loyalty programs fail to deliver real value? In a world where 57% of US consumers no longer demonstrate true brand loyalty, businesses must fundamentally rethink what it means to create lasting customer relationships.
Meghann York, Global Head of Product Marketing at SAP CX, takes us deep into the shifting loyalty landscape with fresh insights from the Global Customer Loyalty Index. The days of simple "buy-get-points-buy-more" programs are fading as consumers—particularly Gen Z—demand authentic connections that align with their values and deliver genuinely personalized experiences.
We explore the stark reality that only 17% of consumers feel truly valued by brands, revealing both a challenge and massive opportunity for forward-thinking businesses. From the decline of "inherited loyalty" to the rise of value-based brand relationships, Meghann unpacks what today's consumers really want: experiences that recognize them as individuals, respect their privacy, and reflect their personal values.
The most fascinating insights come when examining Gen Z's loyalty red flags (irresponsible data use, excessive marketing) and green flags (immersive apps, memorable experiences, relatable influencers). As Meghann explains, "This is a very empowered generation...they know what good looks like and they're going to expect that."
Whether you're struggling with customer retention or looking to build more meaningful brand relationships, this conversation provides actionable insights on creating loyalty programs that deliver real value in an age of endless consumer choice. Ready to transform how your customers feel about your brand? This episode is your roadmap to loyalty that lasts.
You know you buy something. I give you points so you can go buy more. You know, and I think customers are kind of like huh, so you're just honestly, you're just actually getting me to buy more of your stuff. You know like what's what is? Is there really that much in it for me? And again it's. And that's why a lot of loyalty programs have failed, because customers didn't see the value.
Speaker 2:Megan York is Global Head of Product Marketing at SAP CX and I think it might just benefit us before I ask Megan to expand on that title a little bit, just to let it hang in the air at what a giant remit that is, cause that's a lot of stuff. If you, if you know what what SAP does, if you know what a global head of product marketing at a company like that might look like, I would say, expand your mental definition by 10, x and you're kind of almost there, and that's that's my thinking.
Speaker 1:What do you think, megan? Well, thank you, mike. I appreciate that. Yes, it does feel like a big job at times, but I think the vast remit makes it exciting too. I think people who go into product marketing, like me, or people who have these crazy brains who want to be focusing on you, know different things every other minute of the day. So I'm I'm lucky to love it.
Speaker 2:Well, maybe it's the the. The interesting word you threw in there was was focusing, and I can't imagine being able to do that when you've got so much going on.
Speaker 1:Yes, yes, have to be pragmatic about time management. I'll tell you that.
Speaker 2:Right With lots of help, I'm sure.
Speaker 1:Yes, wonderful team.
Speaker 2:So maybe for just to set context for the rest of this conversation, explain to us what really that world really does look like and your role there. Like what is it? You know what's a day in Megan's life look like?
Speaker 1:Yeah, so let me explain the CX portfolio really quickly. So under the customer experience umbrella for SAP, we've got solutions for sales service, marketing, commerce and then customer data. So all of those live under the CX umbrella. What I get to do every day is work with our product teams. You know who are developing new innovations and products and bringing those to market, and our role is really to sort of have our finger on the pulse of what's going on with. You know, our potential customers, our customers' customers, because you know, in CX especially, that's really important and I know we're going to talk about some of those things today.
Speaker 1:You know what analysts are saying. You know what you know journalists like you are saying and bring those insights back into the product team to say you know, these are the kinds of things that the market is wanting, you know. So how can we make sure that we're developing products that the market wants to buy and will serve a real need? And then when those products come to market, I work with our you know more of our go-to-market functions to make sure that our salespeople are really enabled on the product and can talk to their customers about it. You know that any of the work we're doing with journalists or analysts or things like that. You know the message is getting out in the market around those products, what we're developing, and then meeting with customers themselves and talking about kind of where we are right now and also our roadmap and where we're going in CX.
Speaker 2:So it's too bad that this is just an audio medium here, because I think, as you just explained what the kind of product portfolio looks like and what you're doing with all that, in my mind I'm seeing an array of 10,000 little components that roll up to a thousand larger components that roll up to a couple of hundred big components, and there's Megan and her team, kind of you know, working on all of it.
Speaker 1:You're exactly right, lots of different disciplines that we work in across a lot of different products. But, like I said, I think people who go into our field like that you know we like to sort of have our fingers in a lot of different things. But I will say, you know, one of the things is actually being very, very knowledgeable about the space and very knowledgeable, you know, about each one of the products. I'm very lucky to work with some very brilliant people who you know go. Their expertise is very deep in all of those different you know areas sales or service, or marketing or commerce.
Speaker 2:For my part, I've been lucky enough to talk to some of your colleagues over the past couple of years, just touching base kind of like this and getting their perspective on the market space, and it's always been enlightening and just really really interesting. And I think you know kind of again, just because of where you sit within SAP and because of where SAP sits in the broader customer engagement, customer ops ecosystem, you probably have a really unique perspective. You probably I'm guessing here because of that, you probably have a view to gaps and opportunities and trends and hurdles coming down the pike that a lot of people who are down here with me at street level probably don't really get to see. And I think that's one of the reasons I've been looking forward to this conversation for so long. And I think that's one of the reasons I've been looking forward to this conversation for so long, but also because SAP and Emarsys have put out some research recently that I think is really interesting. It's the Global Customer Loyalty Index, if I got the title right.
Speaker 1:You got it.
Speaker 2:I saw it last year, went through it with some of your colleagues last year, highlighted some of the trends that were becoming apparent then. But now there's data to kind of support what we thought we were going to see. We actually saw.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I thought it'd be fun to talk about that a little bit. Yeah, it's been a very great experience to have this be you know more of a longitudinal study, year after year, so that we can see those comparisons and see how you know all of the market factors, with you know, new generations having money to come into the market to spend that type of thing and seeing how these types of things change that type of thing and seeing how these types of things change.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that new generation. I really want to spend some time on that new generation, because a lot of people are wringing their hands on how to just engage those folks. Well, if I may, I'd like to cherry pick a couple of data points and just talk them through with you, highest level here. 57% of US consumers are no longer loyal to consumer products brands, and that's really disheartening. If you're a brand marketer, I mean, what do you do with that? But I think, before we even hit the record button on this conversation, you and I are talking about what does that definition mean? Because I think the definition really, really adds some important context here.
Speaker 1:Sure, sure.
Speaker 1:So, within the Customer Loyalty Index Survey, we have started to see types of loyalty emerge over the course of the many years that we've done it, and so I think that stat refers to what we call true loyalty and that is, you know, no matter what, I am going to buy this particular product and I, you know, I can't be swayed from buying this.
Speaker 1:And I think the fact of the matter is really, no matter what market you're in, there are so many new products, so many new brands, so many new channels to reach people, you know, popping up each and every day, that it is really hard for people to say, with all the choices I have, I'm only going to stick, you know, with this one brand, and that's why and of course I have a feeling about this coming from my perspective but I do think we have seen that people who you know, deliver those really great customer experiences, who make your customers feel something about your brand in a really positive way, whether that's, you know, by the product features and benefits or the interactions they have with their company or what they see in the news media about you, is just becoming so much more important, and I think, especially for CP brands.
Speaker 1:You know, I think that you know, this idea of going direct to consumer and building those direct to consumer relationships and your brand with them, you know, is a little bit of a new thing. So you know, for so long you know it was about selling the product through your partner channels and retailers, and all of that and going direct to consumer, especially with those brands, has just become more and more important over the years.
Speaker 2:Do you feel like those brands that are kind of discovering D2C are fully awakened to what it means and how to execute it, because they're two different things?
Speaker 1:Yeah Well, I mean, I think with anything there's a real maturity curve, you know. And so you've got some direct-to-consumer brands who are just, you know, killing it. We've got Ferrero is one of our customers, it's a candy brand, and so they actually, you know, we've got some great material on that. That's around how they have established really loyal customers and loyal advocates. You know people who are out there doing, you know, promotions on their behalf because they're so obsessed with, like, their favorite favorite candies, you know. And then some other brands are, you know, slower to get to the market. But I think that that is a huge trend that we will see is figuring out for many consumer brands how to crack that D2C code.
Speaker 2:Um, I don't even think, based on the amount of stuff that I've got here, that I want to get through with you today, I don't think we'll really get to. Another great topic which would be which would think it would be huge, especially from someone like you is how you, how you educate um brands and retailers that are kind of on the early part of that curve as to what the possibilities are and then how to execute, because you know that's really that's your business.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:I know there are a lot of people, a lot of people you know at various degrees of operational maturity there that would love, that would love to just be able to ask anonymously like, hey, how do I do this? Because it's daunting and you know technology alone is, is, you know, this giant place where you can get so lost. But but process and then people and you know anyway, that's.
Speaker 1:I'm saying we have playbooks for days, so I will be, happy to talk about that. But I think if we, if we bring it back to the loyalty subject and I had said you know the, the 50% really reflects that true loyalty. We have actually seen increases in some different kinds of loyalty which I think are really interesting and then also tie into this new generation.
Speaker 2:Yeah, let's talk about that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so one of the areas we saw a real increase in is loyalty around, you know, connecting with the brand on your values and your like sort of belief and value based loyalty. So, especially you know this new generation of consumers. They want to frequent brands and be loyal to brands who align with their values, especially around sustainability, but I think, across a lot of different spectrums. And so I mean, you know, the flip side of that is, you know, bad PR for your brand can be, you know, quite detrimental when it comes to things you know, values and beliefs based types of stories. But the good news is that there are so many brands out there, I think, who have you know they have their mission, they have their values, they have maybe the you know, nonprofit or community organizations they're tied to.
Speaker 1:But it's such an internal thing, you know, that people don't think about making those types of things a little bit more external. So when you talk about, you know, advice, I think if you are a company that has those stated values, who does believe in those things, then I think that that's a great idea to use those things to try to connect with your consumers. You know who feel that way and who wants to be loyal to the brands that believe in the things that they do and I think maybe to brands who don't have that stated. You know that almost becomes. I mean, I don't want to say that it's disingenuous, it should be something that we're genuinely doing, having those beliefs and values. But it also becomes a loyalty building tactic and a relationship building tactic with your customers to have those be a little bit more public than they used to be.
Speaker 2:Right, yeah, I'm thinking about a case over on our side of things we were dealing with. We had a client here this was last year that we'd been working with for several years that, because of some of their own internal policies, asked us what our anti-slavery position was and to see documentation on it. Yeah, you know, we have very strong feelings about it, but it never put that into into writing and, um, you know, published it because we needed to.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:So that client, but that's since then. It's become kind of a rallying point with us and some of the people we deal with is that you know we've got to be able to do the right thing. So completely, completely, see the light on that one.
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely. And and I think in the flip side of you know talking about the sustainability values base, you know kind of like that ethical loyalty. The place that we have places that we've seen go down a little bit and I also think this is generational is inherited loyalty. So, you know, I shop at the brands that my parents shopped at or that we always, you know, had in our house. We've seen that go down. The other thing we've seen go down is silent loyalty, so people who you know, just silently shop with the same brands all the time, and I think both of those speak to, you know, a generation of people who has, you know, lots more access to information than their parents did. You know, possibly a lot more access to influencers who help them make decisions, and then a lot more channels to be very loud and proud or very I don't know what the word I'm looking for is very negative about brands they either choose to interact with or brands that they choose to discontinue interaction with so this is not.
Speaker 1:You know, I think my grandparents maybe were the silent generation. This is definitely not it.
Speaker 2:Right yeah, Highly highly vocal about what they think and feel.
Speaker 1:Yes, yes.
Speaker 2:You know, one statistic stood out here and I've seen similar things in other research, but I think it's just a point worth making here. Only 17% of consumers feel truly valued. Yeah, leave the majority who want more, and that's a sad statement. But it's also a massive opportunity. I mean, it doesn't take that much. No, I take that back. It actually takes a lot. It doesn't take a lot of effort, but to do it at scale, to do it programmatically, is a giant undertaking, but it's a huge opportunity. I mean, think about that. If only 17% of consumers your consumers feel valued on some level, there's work to be done, for sure.
Speaker 1:Absolutely there is, and you know it's funny again, I'm going to date myself, but I started working in the personalization space, you know, 15 years ago I think now, and it was interesting that back in those times, we started talking about delivering personalized experiences, and that meant product recommendations Right, you know. So you know we've been saying right product, right channel, right time for for all the time that I have been doing this. But this idea of you know personalization, going far past this idea of you should buy this product to you know in a very privacy friendly way, because I think that's something that you know. We can't talk about personalization and loyalty without talking about privacy, but ensuring that you are getting that information from your customers and using it very wisely and using it in a way that benefits them.
Speaker 1:So, you know, one of the things that I talk about a lot is this value exchange. You know we have. You know consumers are very, very smart now. They are worried about what's happening to all of their data and they're not going to give it up easily anymore, and so I think we do see customers, though, being willing to opt in, give you more information, give you their preferences, when they see that you are using that wisely and you are using it to deliver something that really provides them value. And if they're not provided value, you know, either with an incentive or an offer, or you know, whatever the case may be, you know then you're not going to be able to hit that Yep.
Speaker 2:Right, yeah, I think there's just so many opportunities there that that presents. You know we talk a lot about in this part of the world here about what loyalty really means, how to execute it at scale programmatically, and it almost always boils down to personalization and there are a lot of different definitions of that. But you know, right now, at this moment in time, I think we're at a place where we're about to see things we've only if you're, if you're kind of full of yourself you've been talking about, you've been talking about it as if it existed already. But a little bit more realistic take is that you know real, genuine personalization, things that you could really personalize even in real time. It's possible now in certain realms and it's about to be possible basically in every realm very, very soon. And just knowing something about SAP's product line, how you've kind of architected things to take advantage of these opportunities and leverage them, I think it'd be great, fun and really eye-opening to have a separate discussion Again. We're now on discussion number three, by the way.
Speaker 1:Sure, hey, sign me up.
Speaker 2:On. What does personalization look like right now and what will it look like in a year, because I think there are going to be leaps and bounds of acceleration.
Speaker 1:I completely agree with you. I mean, ai helps us. You know we've only scratched the surface, I think, on what AI can do, but again it goes back to making sure that the AI is trusted and it's reliable, you know, and it's keeping its privacy first, ai and things like that. So you know again, like you said a different conversation, that it has a wide range for potential. I think abuse there if we don't do it right.
Speaker 2:I completely agree.
Speaker 1:But I agree, and I think that you know, I think customers want that. You have brands out in the market who are setting the standard for what personalization looks like, and the expectation then is that any brand you know that people interact with are going to live up to that expectation. But that actually, you know, connected a few dots for me as we were talking about it, because one of the things that we are seeing as far as loyalty goes is it is in the realm of personalization. So you know, when a lot of loyalty programs were started many years ago, it was just very transactional. You know, you buy something, I give you points so you can go buy more. You know, and I think customers are kind of like huh, so you're just like, honestly, you're actually getting me to buy more of your stuff. You know like what's, what is there really that much in it for me?
Speaker 1:And again, it's and that's why a lot of loyalty programs have failed because customers didn't see the value.
Speaker 1:You know, they saw kind of what was in it for the brand but not necessarily what was in it for themselves. And so then those programs, you know they didn't, they didn't keep the success that they, you know that they were hoping for no-transcript personalization and almost like a CRM, customer relationship management. Take on loyalty that we haven't had before, which is like truly understanding the customer. You know at their individual level and you know using AI to understand what is the best offer for them, what are the things that they are most interested in, whether that comes from you as a brand or a potential. You know breadth of partner brands that you are teaming up with. You know on your loyalty programs and making sure that those people are getting the offers. You know that resonate and that means something to them, and so you know. It's kind of a different way than even looking at the loyalty program itself, but also looking at the technology that makes those types of loyalty programs happen.
Speaker 2:Right. I mean you know it's funny because every say 18 months, the loyalty industry has a new buzzword that everybody's just like. This is what we're about and if you've been around for as long as I have, quite long, you've heard them all and and some of them are just kind of buzzwords at the moment. But something you said keeps coming back and that was experiential loyalty. Like it is it is, it's no longer sufficient, unless you're just the kind of brand that's a discounter period, but it's no longer. It's no longer sufficient to make the relationship purely transactional. That doesn't produce any kind of relationship there.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And yet I think it was probably about four or five years ago people started saying, yeah, and we're producing experiential loyalty. I'm holding up air quotes here. You can't see this but at that point it didn't really mean anything. It was like we're onto something but we don't know what it is yet. And yet now I think there's a much broader understanding of the value of experiences and how you can produce them at scale.
Speaker 1:So, and that's just really starting to happen, I think in full force right about now so yeah, and I think that that's why, you know, maybe that is a buzzword, but at the you know, at the crux of it, it really just means giving people experiences that they find valuable and will enjoy. You know and how to do that and, like I said, I think I think brands are also starting to realize that maybe that can't be just delivered directly from their brands, and so they're building these you know cohorts or partnerships across a lot of different, maybe you know like-minded brands, so that you know it keeps. You know what is it? Rising tides raises all.
Speaker 2:There you go, yep.
Speaker 1:You know that people you know can do that for each other with those loyalty, partnership and loyalty programs.
Speaker 2:So you just gave us the outline for conversation number four.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:I'm sorry what this is about to do to your work schedule, but it's valuable stuff and I think SAP really is the forefront of a lot of that thinking and certainly executing it. If I may, I'd like to jump a little bit into the Gen Z conversation. Not only is it fascinating because everybody in the world is trying to figure them out. I know brands whose business depends on understanding Brand Z and I was talking to one of their lead research people. This is about two months ago and literally in the conversation she was wringing her hands as if and this is a person who knows consumer research but, like you know, this is very, very strange not being able to deal with a group of people in any way like the group of people who came before them. Yeah, and there you have it, Gen Z. But I'm looking through some of your research and I love the way you've broken this down into red flags and green flags In your words, not mine. Sap and Marsa's research revealed the top loyalty red flag pitfalls that could drive away Gen Z shoppers, and maybe I should just kind of read through them and then we can talk about them. Let's go through the reds first and then we'll go through the greens the fixes.
Speaker 2:So number one of the reds 27%. Treating personal data irresponsibly. I knew that was in there. I would have suspected that it was a little bit further down the list, but hey, what do I know? Number two 27%. Sending excessive marketing communications. Number three 26% charging for returns. Uh-oh. Number four 18%, failing to reward long-term customers. There you go. Number five 14%. Failing to what? Personalize a shopping experience. Yeah, Turn off Gen Zs. As if there wasn't enough to turn off Gen Zs.
Speaker 1:Well, I will tell you, I live with two Gen Zers and so my experience comes from my research but also just personally. I mean, this is a generation, I think, who has grown up in a very unpredictable time is a generation, I think, who has grown up in a very unpredictable time. They have grown up, I think, being treated you know, both from home and across the board and out in the world, as the expectation that they will be treated like individuals. You know that they won't. You know they're not a generation that is like sort of wants to be part of the masses. Like we said, I think they have more access to information than you know any other generation has had. They with you know social media, their TikTok and their attention span you know lots of research about attention spans being much smaller and they also have grown up with brands who are doing this.
Speaker 1:Well, you know, for those of us of a certain age, like we were there for like the dawn of personalization and we're like, oh, this is cool. You know, I can't believe that this is, this is able to be happening. But this generation, I mean, some of this stuff is just table stakes to them, exactly, but they've grown up with it, and so I think, given all of those things, this is a very, very empowered generation, and I mean that very positively. They have so much more choice than they ever had before, and so they feel very empowered to to vet their decisions, um, to not feel like they have to just use the same brands that their parents or you know other people in their lives have used, um, and they, like I said, they know what good looks like and they're going to expect that.
Speaker 2:Right, I, I, uh was talking to somebody else recently that was telling me the story of in their research, they saw that their discounts and kind of transactional rewards, if you will, were completely ineffective with Gen Z, like utterly like didn't move the needle at all. And what they found out was after they went deeper was, um, everybody that they surveyed was getting the deal going to their phone within like maximum 13 seconds, had evaluated whether it was a good deal or a bad deal. Like you know, real world, real time. I get a whole view of I got a better deal over here. Forget that. And and it was a real eye opener and there's never been a generation that was that comfortable, kind of just deciding are you real or you're not, are you good for me or you're not, and can do so at a moment's notice.
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely yeah, and so I think. But then I think then the privacy component is something really to be thoughtful of too. You know they are a very conscientious, very aware generation and they, you know, I mean they see sending too many emails, I think, is an invasion of their privacy, almost, you know. You know being bothered by all of those, even if they are checking emails.
Speaker 2:Yeah, even though what?
Speaker 1:email is I'm thinking of?
Speaker 2:my kids that get annoyed when I text them too much, but that's a different dynamic.
Speaker 1:Exactly. But I mean I think it's going to be really fascinating, you know, really fascinating to see, and I think that they do. You know we've been saying this forever too, but you know they do want a little bit more of that relationship. They know that that's possible. But back to the conversation around. You know ethics and social responsibility. This is, like I said, also a very conscientious generation, and so they want to frequent brands that they they feel good about. You know I've seen studies of this generation. Just I mean, how important they think community services and in the workplace, you know, wanting the expectation of having volunteer hours and things like that, like baked into their work life, and how important that is. So I mean I think it's great and it's time for, I think, brands just to step up a little bit and, like we said before, either be louder about the things that they believe in, so that they can connect with people that way, or establish where they're going to fit to bring that generation along.
Speaker 2:That might be topic number five, I think you just gave us there which is, you know, honestly you're talking about things that again, you see this on a macro level because you get a view to the trends before most people do, but everybody's thinking the same thing and wondering how they get there.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Maybe we'll call them the elusive generation.
Speaker 2:Well, that brings up another point. One of the things this other researcher was saying was that if you meet Gen Z's criteria, if you meet their values, their authenticity, transparency, sustainability, all those values that again is kind of table stakes. But once you've met all that, if they see a better deal, they're gone, like like what all that work you've you've done, trying to communicate and relate to them, you know who you are, who they are. Maybe we can, we can have some business here.
Speaker 1:If it comes down to price, you better have that too yeah so um, let's talk about my children are very happy to pay a lot of money. I'll tell you that. But that's just personal.
Speaker 2:Good for you, yeah, all right. So let's talk about the green flags, how to win loyalty. What are some of those items that can establish a bond and kind of redirect what otherwise might be ill feelings? And again, if you don't mind, I'll just cherry pick a handful of stats here. 43% of Gen Z show their loyalty to a brand by having the brand's app downloaded. This signifies the importance of delivering high quality apps to keep this generation immersed and loyal in a brand. So just the act of downloading an app is a show of sorts of loyalty. It means that you've decided to bond with that brand somehow.
Speaker 1:That's a big deal.
Speaker 2:I mean just the opposite.
Speaker 1:I completely agree with that and doing things like you said, shopping across a lot of different places and looking at different brands and things like that when you pull people into an app experience, especially if it is very immersive and a very, you know, pleasant and enriching shopping experience, then I think that that, you know, it's one of those things. That's kind of those intangibles a bit, but it is about like app not making your app transactional either, like making it a place that those shoppers want to go and spend some time researching or discovering, and all of that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'm not saying anything now because I want to ponder. You know that's such an important point. Okay, having said that, 27% say offering memorable experiences like personalized services or events can help the situation. 23% said being iconic and relatable on social media. Can you just tell me what?
Speaker 1:that means Well, I think you know.
Speaker 1:To me that means you know we talked about this not being the silent generation that they, you know, are out there posting or snapping, you know, every other minute it seems like.
Speaker 1:And so I think when you have brands who are doing a great job of building their brand image themselves, and then you have this generation that wants to be associated with that brand, the consumer gets a little bit, I think, of I don't know credibility or influence themselves, even being associated with that brand. You know, snapping yourself at the store or posting a TikTok from you know, wearing a certain piece of clothing or something like that, you know. I mean, we see that generation definitely doing this. We also see them going and I keep coming back to this, but I think it's so important we also see them, you know, going, pulling away in droves from these brands who you know don't stand what they stand for or something coming of life. I mean, just as soon as your brand is built up, it can pretty much crumble with the power of social media and the power of this generation, the power of social media and the power of this generation, you bet, I guess I was tripped up by the phrase being iconic and, you know, trying to be iconic my whole life.
Speaker 1:You are so iconic, mike, I don't know.
Speaker 2:You're being way too kind and losing credibility by the second.
Speaker 1:I really don't know how to be iconic myself. I don't either.
Speaker 2:So it's fine. I need more Gen Z's around me to show me. Let's see. I need more Gen Z's around me to show me. Let's see. 22% say they're more loyal to brands that use AI to improve the shopping experience.
Speaker 1:Shows an incredible awareness of the power of AI, by the way, yes, oh yes, I mean there is no behind the scenes AI anymore, especially with this generation. I mean they, just they. They know what it is, they know how to use it for schoolwork. They know how to use it for they, they, just they. They know what it is, they know how to um use it for schoolwork. They know how to use it for you know just about everything.
Speaker 2:And so they understand how brands are using it as well. Um, let's see. So the last one here makes a lot of sense, but the fact that it's got such a high number there um 17%, say collaborating with relatable influencers and celebrities A really big deal, really big deal. You know so much of the purchase decision right now is based on who else is validating it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I think this goes back to you know things being experiences and things like that with loyalty. You know like you loyalty If you are a brand that partners with one of these influencers and as a loyal customer, you get special access to a line that this person is releasing, or Spotify is a great example. As a Spotify listener, I always get special access to tickets or access to a vinyl album that's come out from somebody I listen to a lot. So I mean that just shows how this idea of maintaining that customer relationship and building loyalty also is so connected with those influencers or celebrities that people are spending their time with and being aware of that in the population that you serve. And I think you know now I'm giving brand advice, which I'm a product person. So let's, this is not.
Speaker 2:You still have a lot, a lot to say there. That's got a lot of validity, so I'm going to give you that.
Speaker 1:Thank you, but I, but I also do think you know, from a brand standpoint, and and but, From a brand standpoint, being very secure and talking about your values a lot and then associating yourself with people and influencers who share those values, I think that those are ways to bring those types of things together rather than just looking at know, talk about your new makeup line on TikTok or something like that just goes. I think we've seen this happen. I feel like it evolves in months, not years anymore.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah.
Speaker 1:And being really thoughtful about you know who they associate themselves with.
Speaker 2:It's a huge deal. As you can see, we I mean really we've touched on the tip of the iceberg. Well, we've touched on the tips of about five icebergs right now. So there's a lot more that I hope we can wrangle ourselves into your schedule to discuss, because this is fascinating. But perhaps, just to be kind to your schedule, I should just say thank you.
Speaker 1:Oh, you're welcome. Thank you so much for having me. It's been great.
Speaker 2:It's a lot of fun. First of all, you're welcome. Thank you so much for having me. It's been great. That's a lot of fun. You know, first of all, you're just great fun and a lot of fun to talk to and this is just really interesting. But I think you know beyond what it does for me. I think people who listen to and read Customer Land are all concerned with these topics. This is everything we've talked about is a direct hit on the key. You know friction points and unknowns of the moment. So it's great stuff With that. Thank you, I really appreciate it.
Speaker 1:Thank you, mike, and yeah, well, I'll see you again next month.
Speaker 2:Right. Same time, same channel.
