Customerland
Customerland is a podcast about …. Customers. How to get more of them. How to keep them. What makes them tick. We talk to the experts, the technologies and occasionally, actual people – you know, customers – to find out what they’re all about.So if you’re a CX pro, a loyalty marketer, a brand owner, an agency planner … if you’re a CRM & personalization geek, if you’re a customer service / CSAT / NPS nerd – you finally have a home.
Customerland
Beyond Headless: The Journey to Joyful Content Optimization
What happens when you tell a software engineer his CMS platform will shut down in six months, leaving major clients like Adidas and Reebok stranded? You get Storyblock - perhaps the most thoughtful reinvention of content management in decades.
Dominik Angerer, CEO and co-founder of Storyblok, takes us on a journey through the broken world of traditional CMS platforms and reveals how his team is building something fundamentally different. The problem isn't just technical – it's the entire approach to content creation and management that's failed marketing teams everywhere.
Most CMS platforms function as what Dominic calls "content graveyards" – places where content is published and forgotten after being created elsewhere in Google Docs or Word. This disjointed workflow creates endless inefficiencies, from formatting inconsistencies to the inability to properly reuse content across channels.
Storyblok's "Joyful Headless" approach combines developer-friendly API architecture with tools specifically designed for marketers' needs. Their Ideation Room brings unstructured content creation directly into the CMS environment, while forthcoming features will use AI to help refresh stale content and visualize how content connects across your digital ecosystem.
The results speak for themselves – the National Retail Federation reduced development time by 70% using Storyblok's approach. Unlike competitors who have expanded beyond content management into e-commerce and other functionalities, Storyblock maintains laser focus on solving the content lifecycle challenges: ideation, creation, publishing, and reuse.
Ready to liberate your content from the graveyard and transform how your team creates? Discover why Storyblok's focused approach might just be the solution you've been searching for.
You're stuck with certain technology decisions that they made at the time. By now, many of them have added APIs, but if you add two more tires to a bike, it's not a car, it's still a bike with two more tires. It's still not a headless CMS. It's not an API.
Speaker 2:I think you just won for the analogy of the week, by the way, thank you, thank you, thank you. Dominic Angerer is CEO and co-founder of Storyblock, which is the biggest CMS. You may not have heard of Dominic. Before we get into the what and the how of Storyblock, which is a fascinating story, first, thank you for joining me. I really appreciate this. Thank you so much for my thriving me. So Dominic and I met at NRF so it seems like ages ago now, like so much has happened since then, but the 2025 NRF event and I was introduced to the technology and the team and it's pretty interesting. But maybe just to set context for this conversation, tell us your journey from whatever it wasn't to what it is now, and why, because that's pretty neat stuff.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so, mike, I'm actually a software engineer. You won't believe it, but I'm a trained software engineer. I used to do back-end technology like java, php, uh. They love like extra database, uh, optimization, uh, be it mysql, be it's uh note in itself, but there's so many different things that I've been doing in in the past couple of years that one of the things was creating yet another cms. So, out of this, uh, software engineering world, together with my founder co-founder, alexander, we started building this, this kind, creating yet another CMS. So, out of this software engineering world, together with my co-founder, alexander, we started building this content management system within a smaller agency here in Austria. So I'm actually based in Austria still, even though we are now a fully remote company.
Speaker 1:And you need to know that there are thousands of content management systems out there. And people told us okay, you're building a CMS, nice for you, why would you do that? And, to be honest, I fully get that. You know like we started building this CMS for us at that agency just to solve our own pain, because we had this enterprise content management system in place with Adidas, with Reebok, with Silhouette and some other customers at the agency, and you know we sent them a bug report, a really small one, a small fix.
Speaker 1:Maybe the developer would have to take one day, and we asked them to fix it in the next three to four months. Literally nothing pressing, nothing crazy, really chill kind of problem to fix. Their reply to that email, like you won't believe it was yeah, we're shutting it off in six months. We don't fix it, so please find something else. So we have amazing clients just transitioning into this enterprise content management system from the Austrian Press Agency and they were telling us, yeah, we're shutting it off, so please, please, find something else you could imagine With no other direction, you know, because that's a-.
Speaker 1:Reminds me of some of the things that are happening in this country politically right now, but that's a different story. Yeah, I mean, you know, if there's no other direction, we're like, okay, what should we do? And Alex and I we then sat down and just scoped the market for us. We're serving mostly on enterprise clients, upper mid-market clients from e-commerce, b2b, b2 to like large corporate sites, but also intranets, also mobile applications. Actually, the craziest thing that the that we ever produced with an agency was a 3d yacht configurator where you can have an oculus rift on. You go through, you can buy your yacht at the end. I don't have the money to do that, but I tell you, people swipe the credit card for it and it's actually crazy to do it in an Oculus Rift setup.
Speaker 1:Anyway, we tried to find a new solution. We tried to find something that people enjoyed using for marketing point of view. So something that is simple, that feels not too heavy but, at the same time, can do all the heavy lifting. So content planning, content scheduling, content orchestration, building out the customer journey in the content area itself, but also enables us as developers to use the technology that we want. And we started looking into Adobe Sitecore. We looked into the more open source offerings like WordPress, drupal from Drupal, we actually went into Equia to test that, and so we tested different systems on the market and whenever we did that, we built a project with a customer. We had six months to do that because we had to transition all other clients as well, obviously. Um, no time pressure whatsoever, right? Yeah, and you know, we started building those projects and we realized we were way slower than we were before, not only because it's the first project we have done with some of them, but also that they actually have technology that you are forced to use. So, fastest developer, we are just slowed down because we had to learn the specifics for just this like tool that we were using the cms that we're using then and we realized this is not what we want.
Speaker 1:We want to use the technology that we're used to, which is whatever. We want any kind of front-end technology, because it also frees up the content. We can use it wherever we want, right? And we found headless content management systems. So two of our competitors now were already around back then Contentful and Contentstack. Shout out to them. They're actually crazy to build something as they did. They're quite nice tools in itself, but what we found lacking, especially back then, was the marketing angle of things. They were API-based systems so we could access data easily from a developer point of view, but our customers back then told us, hey, that we cannot use.
Speaker 2:We need something that is more used to our own content production, like problems that we're having from the idea to actually publishing it and then also reiterating on the content so you talk a little bit about what some of those problems and the systems they were used to working on were, because that seems to have guided some of your search.
Speaker 1:So if you think about content management systems right now, most of them actually all of them are built as a system of record. So at point you have created content somewhere and people are copying, pasting that in. So, sadly enough, content management systems are not usually the place you're creating content. It's the place where you're storing content and then hit publish and then you forget about it. I called it five, six years ago as content graveyards. You create your content unstructured in a word document or google doc. That's the normal process. Many are doing that and then you have some approval steps, either in the cms or in your google setup as well, and you share the link, either blog articles you are outlying like a landing page, and the content around that. Maybe you have a translation kind of project going, but it happens usually outside of the CMS and then people are copying and pasting it, checking it again, maybe running a preview kind of build somewhere, and then they hit publish and hope for the best and it's out there. They forget about it and move on, build the next thing, starting Google Docs again, and this workflow is really really tiring over time. It's really really cumbersome because you have multiple systems that are not meant to do it. You have copied content around different formatting options, you have completely different structures sometimes the structure, sometimes not. And suddenly we realized, hey, there's a discrepancy between how people are creating content, how they're managing it, how they're publishing it, and also nobody is actually looking into how to reuse it. Because if you have a Google Doc, you cannot link to your content that you have already published other than with a web link. But a web link is completely useless on a mobile application, so you need to have certain different ways to connect it.
Speaker 1:So the pain for marketers was that there was not one UI where they actually build the full content life cycle having an idea, unstructured information, getting that into a structured, component based kind of area where you have, like a hero, a headline kind of setup, maybe columns with different information, newsletter sections and whatnot, whatever you want to come up with, want to build a website and these components needs to be filled with that content that you created in unstructured area. Then you hit publish and over time you need to update the content because you're changing as a company over time. I mean, we're completely different and people were stuck in that it took a long time just to manage the content and on the other side, for developers. Which is actually the pain point we started actually going really deep on in the beginning is that if you're looking into a WordPress, if you're looking into a Drupal all the versions of them in particular or if you look into Adobe and Sitecore, you're stuck with certain technology decisions that they made at the time.
Speaker 1:By now, many of them have added APIs. But if you add two more tires to a bike, it's not a car, it's still a bike. With two more tires, it's still not a headless CMS, it's not an API. First, I think you just won for the analogy of the week.
Speaker 1:By the way, thank you, but I mean it's true, because if you build something that is at the time that I was not even born and you want to tell me that if you just put an API in front of it it's something new, it's not. You still have the old database structures, you still have all the problems that you're experiencing on a day-to-day basis. You need something that actually is built in the current time and for the current time and also is future-proof in the sense of okay, if you focus only on data, you can use data wherever you want. So we figured okay, we need to have something that works for both the marketers, which have this huge content lifecycle topic, and we have developers that wants to build websites, they want to build applications, they want to use the content, internet or any other platform they want. So api first really had less headless, as a is coming from removing the hats removing if it's a website, removing if it's an application. So removing those hats and making them interchangeable is the idea of just delivering data. And we did that by combining a headless CMS with the first Visual AD data out there, and by now we actually call it Joyful Headless. It shouldn't be boring. Cmss are boring by default. We want to change that. We're changing that and actually we trademarked joyful headless as well. So it's about bringing back the joy in content management, content creation, and we'll focus on just that.
Speaker 1:Why I'm saying focus on just that. Adobe and site core and some of our competitors now started adding more and more features, so they removed their focus from CMS. They added an e-commerce solution, they added a search solution, they added another tool personalization and whatnot hosting All the different things and all under the hood of oh yeah, we just composed them together for you. You don't have to worry about it. It's basically a lock-in in disguise.
Speaker 1:People should be free to use whatever they want, be it any technology that they want, any hosting provider they want, and our system needs to not get in their way. It needs to be compatible with everything on the market, and these are the pain points we try to solve with Storyblocks. So we try to build a solution that you don't have to worry about that is focusing on CMS, that is tackling the problems for marketers in a joyful way, where it's easy to use, where they can just really have fun. Monday morning, you know, you come in, you're looking into your content that you need to produce this week. Look into the stuff that is assigned to you on Friday night where you were off, and you should not go in there like, okay, I need 20 coffees to actually get started. It should be easier, having a dashboard.
Speaker 2:you got in and you could go in and for I don't know if you don't know the same thing, if you realize at the time, but you set yourselves a pretty high goal. Yes, to make monday mornings not miserable. That's the plan.
Speaker 1:That's the plan. That's what we're trying for. We're on a good track.
Speaker 2:I have to see mike yeah, so, um, let's talk a little bit about the content lifecycle, which I'm so glad you brought it up, because, as we produce a lot of content here, we publish a lot of content here. Managing a content through its lifecycle and repurposing it through its various iterations and channels is always something that becomes this it's done through spreadsheets and a bunch of links and we basically manually do the process that you're solving for. So in Storyblock, in that world, how are you solving for the content lifecycle management?
Speaker 1:Yeah. So we brought in something actually launched it end of last year which is called Ideation Room, because what we realized is that everybody's solving the part which I mentioned of last year which is called Ideation Room, because what we realized is that everybody is solving the part which I mentioned of saving it, publishing it, the graveyard kind of thing, right. So we started now okay, let's roll it up from the beginning and the adoption is starting to catch up, but the idea is that we do a pre-investment in that area of ideation. We want to get your content away from a Google Doc or Word document, because I don't want you to have 20 different files that are called final. I don't want you to send around 20 different files via email and if you feel caught, this is exactly why we're doing this.
Speaker 2:I'm smiling because I just pointed out as guilty here. Sorry about that, mike. I've got like 200 finals out there, so yeah.
Speaker 1:It's the usual thing and we believe that this needs to be part of the content management system. It's not a content management publishing system, it's a content management system, so we want to bring the management back into this. So the idea area the ideation room as we call it is the first step of doing that. It's an unstructured blank page, blank piece of paper, basically similar what you would expect from a google doc word document, but with the big difference that all your existing content you can reference to, so you can build references directly without using links by itself. Yes, you can add external links, like a mirror connection, like a Figma board or anything like that, but the idea is that you have your content already in place. There are also AI tools with OpenEIS, api, but also Bedrock from EWS, that you can utilize automatically out of the box right now actually also for free, because we launched it in our lab storyblock labs for people to just get used to it, so they can just create content. They can ideate with content. They can bring in their existing content, play around with it and then link it back to existing content that they have in storyblock.
Speaker 1:Gotcha first part, ideating second part is you need to bring it to life. That's how the linking, the referencing, basically works. Once you have the ideas, you can reference them, you can create them and publish them. So from idea, the publishing part, saving part, is already done. You can define your blocks. It's a reusable content, modules that you can create. It's basically a definition of how your hero is defined headline, subheadline, background image, maybe a button call action. Maybe you have below that another section, another component with a subheadline newsletter, whatever you want to build it up. Essentially, you can think of it as building your own block library, your own Lego block kind of setup that you want to go by. And I'm not actually sure if I'm allowed to say Lego here so many times. I don't want to do branding.
Speaker 2:If the attorneys call us, I'll send them your way.
Speaker 1:Sorry, sorry, but I mean we play a lot with those things in the past and, to be honest, most of our customers do that as well. Like they have the design team, the marketing team, the developers, and all of them just play with the modules that they want to build and then just build them. Developers write the code in HTML or in the structure of the app that they're building, being Kotlin or anything else. The marketers have the structures in Storyblock, with the different blocks, and designers define them in Figma. So suddenly you have all the three departments talking about the same thing and they can move on. So ideation. Then comes the process where they develop those components. If they already exist, they can just reuse it, so no need for developers to jump in, and then they can hit publish.
Speaker 1:So that's the part where the graveyard comes in, the content graveyard. So how do we solve that? Now? Right, how do we get the full circle closed? And this is something that we're building now.
Speaker 1:I don't want to call it a resurrection, I don't think that's the right word for it, but we're going to call it slightly different. We're going to call it stale content solving, because that's what it is. You have content that is stale. Nobody wants to touch it, and the good thing is, because we have your ideas already in the system. We can use those ideas as the baseline of refreshing your old content. So, suddenly, your content from 2018 might be relevant with one of your ideas. Suddenly, we can reuse the content and suggest to you, as a marketer, already, an update. Hey, the ideas that you just created in last week could be an update for this article, or you want to add a direct connection between them? So it will be us. That gives you the potential of not having to worry about your old content, because we'll do the suggestions for you and you can just approve, approve, deny or rewrite them if you want. This is something that we're working on right now, so this is not out yet, but I'm really, really, really happy with the first drafts.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's super exciting. I would love to be a fly on the wall or just peeking around the corner as you're demoing it, because it's uh, that's solving the big one. I mean, we've got thousands and thousands, just from our own standpoint, of pieces of content that have each performed, you know, in their own way, really well, not so well, and everywhere in between, and, uh, some of it's evergreen, some of it's just very time specific. But you know, getting a handle on that is one thing, but then managing its repurposing is its own arduous, lengthy, ridiculous process. So, yeah, I want that.
Speaker 1:Jan Bogaertske yeah, we actually bring in a concept room kind of tool. That is going to come, I believe, actually in Q2 this year. I need to check on the roadmap again. But think of it that most companies don't know what kind of content they have. You just mentioned thousands of content. I would not be able to recall that, and certainly most people will also not know how they are linked to each other and the connections. So think of one representation where you have a full graph of your whole content structure and how they are connected. With that you can actually then start seeing a complete flow of users through your content, because of course they are linked somehow, and with that you can then make suggestions. Okay, I need to remove that link. People are just jumping off from where I want them to go, where I want them to engage with us, and that will be huge as well. But it's optimization in between the lifecycle.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean I'm thinking of people who manage and publish content that we find that invaluable, but also for the whole SEO community. To have that kind of visual tool where you could see your content, structure and processes all in one place would be invaluable. That's going to be interesting. So one of the things at NRF that we talked about that really got my attention was when you have you have an, a list of clients and and, as you said, you know, one of them or I guess anyway said uh, yeah, we're getting rid of the CMS, can you figure something else out? By the way, you have six months to do it.
Speaker 2:Um, let us know what you come up with, kind of a thing. So that's's, that's certainly some incentive there. But, um, interesting to me as well was that you are the cms behind the nrf site. Yes, which is pretty neat. You know that. I'd have to say that, you know, just from a sales, marketing and promotion standpoint, that's a big win because you have, you know, basically a whole city of people, uh, visiting your site and benefiting from the way you've structured this thing.
Speaker 1:So big props, I have to say, rda as an agency. Together with Jason from NRF, they have done amazing. If you look into what they have done together with Netlify from hosting, there was a huge spike obviously on the weekend and the days of NRF. There was no delays, there was no downtime. The whole content orchestration that they set up really is spot on. We are lucky to be part of it 100%. We actually had Jason also at our sales kickoff to present, together with RDA, what they have done, how their experience was together with them working on this project and there are many, so many, many, many cool things to come from NRF and I mean their whole kind of launch was a pure success. We actually have a full case study on our website together with them where you can actually have more insights into how everything went and sneak peek it went really well.
Speaker 2:Cool. Well, we'll definitely put a link to that when this podcast goes live. Thank you. So Storyblock has been a part of some research. You've put out some research and I've got kind of a high-level set of data points. That one I think are just really interesting. But two, maybe I could just throw some of these out and have you kind of pull them apart for us and I'm just going to go high-level on some of this stuff. Referring back to NRF, storyblocks technology helped NRF reduce development time by 70%. I mean, 70% of anything is something to really pay attention to. But can you talk about that a little bit? What were those savings? How did they accrue?
Speaker 1:So usually when you go into a website project or any kind of restructuring project, replacement project, migration project, there's a huge fear of it getting way too complex. This is what people are fearing most of, and the funny thing is, if you're using a tool like a headless CMS, there are two things you need to think about. First, how should be the structure of the content that you would want to put out there, which is basically, what kind of content do you have? How should it look like later in just a content point of view? And then you need to have a team that really delivers on using that content structure, the data that you have to build what you want to achieve the website, the app, whatever you want. In that regard, and the way that nrf has done it really, really smartly, they worked with rda, a partner that is used to doing those kind of migrations. Yes, you can do it on your own if you have development resources, for sure, but rda, as an example, they are one of the I believe, one of the best agencies in the us. You can actually get to build something with you because they are not just developing, they actually sit down first, understand what do you want to solve. What do you want to achieve? What is your number one, priority number two, number three, number four? So what they went through is a multi-phased approach. Okay, what do we need to get life by when? And with breaking it up into that structure and then having a migration of the content that is only necessary for the phase one basically cuts your costs down already drastically because you have your mvp life really quickly, you can build a small project even though it's complex. If you start with what is really important to get live first, you suddenly realize okay, I got my skeleton kind of boilerplate to life, I got it hosted, I got the security setup done, I got the whole ssl certification set up done of the service, together with Netlify or Vercel or any other hosting tool. I got my content migrated from the old system I have into a new one, or maybe even use the old one.
Speaker 1:I would recommend to use something else, as you would guess Most likely. It's actually a good idea to do that because many companies there's another state of CMS report that we also brought out where it shows like most companies have two to three cms's and they only use one and the others are like just that costs that you just have to pay what recommends to transition. Uh. But uh, one thing that they they applied really well at nrf is they realize that they don't have to transition all of it at once. They can take the time to do the first mvp, build the project, launch it and then add on top of that, progressively enhancing what they have built. And, funny enough, once you have the mvp, usually you realize okay, now my priority has shifted so I can take the next part and reprioritize and see okay, phase two needs to be this, this and that. So you migrate the next part of content, you publish it, you create it online, and again and again, and turns out that they were actually two weeks ahead of schedule. One. One week. One week because jason already gave them a tighter timeline, and one week faster because already actually delivered even faster. So big shout out again to them.
Speaker 1:Uh, this time of reduction is not just based on story block, for sure. It's the way that they handled it, the understanding of how the structure content, how they can utilize the apis that we have for us. I believe the highest impact is in the long run, because development is only one part where we actually having an impact. The content creation afterwards is the nice part. They don't need developers to do it anymore. And we do have a ti report from forrester actually out there where you can see a 582 I believe you can quote me on that number 582% return of investment by installing Storyblock for your marketing department across our enterprise customers. So it's basically an independent research done by Forrester, which we paid for, of course, but they were completely independent and we are not able to influence them.
Speaker 1:So NRF has done brilliantly and the site itself speaks for itself. It sure does.
Speaker 2:I mean, everything was flawless this year, and that hasn't always been the case. I mean, go to NRF enough and it's been a process of maturity over the years, and this was the first one, and I'll tell you this isn't just my opinion spoke with several people outside of storyblock, outside of anybody who was working on the site, who all commented on how, to, how seamless their presence was, their digital presence was, which has come widely.
Speaker 1:I mean, if you think about it yeah, mike, if you think about it they're building a whole city. Yeah, just for us to have nrf. Then they break it down, build in another city, break it down, build another. And they do that every time. And the website itself cannot go offline. People need to know where to go, where the stands are, how to get to their booths numbers, how to get to the batches, and all of that went seamlessly for them. It's mind-blowing.
Speaker 2:I wanted to talk a little bit about how you and your Storyblock team are thinking about future-proofing content management processes, Because you know, look, there are, as you've said, a handful of CMSs that have been around for a couple of decades. They're largely not changed. But what changes is the quantity and capability of the add-ons. So, as you said, add two more wheels to a bicycle. It's not a car, it's still a bicycle. I think we're dealing with a lot of 16-wheel bicycles out there right now. So how is Storyblock kind of approaching the future-proofing side of this?
Speaker 1:Yeah. So most CMSs or DXP vendors, however you want to call them by now they want to deliver one platform for all. You want to call them by now. They want to deliver one platform for all you want to do online.
Speaker 1:So not just talking about content management, but e-commerce, search and so on and with that, you will lose focus. That's a given. Nobody can be the best at everything. That's a given, and you can see it in our personal lives. You might be the best sprinter in the world, but you will then not be the best bowling person in the world. Might be the best sprinter in the world, but you will then not be the best bowling person in the world, I presume. If somebody can do that, that's up. Try to do football next, and you're like. So you cannot be the best at everything at once.
Speaker 1:So if you take that approach and that understanding and the humility of knowing that you cannot do that, how about we just focus on one thing and do it really well? And I have to say, uh, this, this this quote is coming from peter larsinger, which is one of our first investors from back in 2019 uh, because we had those amazing ideas of like the search, this e-commerce and we can do this better and this better and this better. And he literally said with us in a, in a, on a large table with a coffee, and he's like, guys, uh, how about you just fix one thing that you care the most about and do it really, really, really well? And it turns out that if you do that and focus on just content management which is a huge topic it's not just publishing, as mentioned. It's the full life cycle of how you create content, how you diversify content, how you can reuse content. And we are not finished with all of that yet.
Speaker 1:So there's so many things we could do, but what, what we want to do and what we are focused on and what we are going to solve in the next couple of years, is the whole content journey, the whole content life cycle, and this is really about idea getting and understanding what you have, how to use that content, how to reuse old content together with your new ideas. Then get content out there, publish it, reuse them, distribute them on social media, distribute them on whatever channel that might come, because it's headless, it's, it's API-based, it's just data. You can use the data to feed into an LLM. If you want, you can feed that into a video creation tool. You can use that content however you want. It's really amazing. And then you have a tool in the background, which is Storyblock again, that uses that old content and tries to help you generate something new. Something new and once we're done with that, I'm most likely will be 100 years old. So completely solved.
Speaker 2:Which is a big statement, because I think you're probably in your 20s or 30s.
Speaker 1:I just turned 30. Hopefully I will be still around building that, but I have to say I don't want to water down our vision of becoming the best content management system for developers and marketers out there. This is what we're trying to do. We want to be in the forefront on how innovation looks like. So we integrate with tools in a meaningful way, which means, yeah, we don't just implement an image generator because everybody wants that now, or we're not just generating text for you because everybody does that now. You can use ChatGPT for that. Yes, you can also do it in Storyblock. But where it makes sense, we will add those things that just make your life easier, the in, the out, and that's what we're working on. That's what we're striving for.
Speaker 1:Uh, we don't want to build an e-commerce system. We don't. We can partner with one. We have partners with um, with Commerce tools, with BigCommerce, with Shopify, with, you know, like shopware, inmedia as well. So there's so many tools that already do that really well. So we just partner with them and we connect them natively Digital Asset Management System, cloudinary Binder, native Integrations. If you need a PIM, acaneo, direct Integration. If you need a CDN, we have one integrated directly with EWS. No need to worry about it. Image Optimization you can just do that on the fly, not a problem. There are things that we believe we should focus on, which is content creation, manipulation and adoption, but as soon as there's a shift of focus in search Algolia, as an example, perfect search setup you don't need to reinvent that, because there are tools out there that are API-based, that you can just connect to, you can compose the platform and you can take it step by step, which makes the whole migration process super easy.
Speaker 2:If you can't tell, Dominic is very passionate about this subject.
Speaker 2:It was evident to me within seconds after meeting him at the NRF conference this year. But there's so much more we could be talking about here and I think it would be great if we could reschedule another meeting, say later in the year, when you've got more that's been checked off on your roadmap and some of these things that are still kind of being drawn out in whiteboard phase. We can see what's happening, how they're being deployed, how people are using them, and I think maybe even most interesting because you sit in this place and that's what I love talking about you and people like you is you're not just looking at deploying what you have here now. You're looking out over the next horizon, what's happening after you cross the next hill or around the next corner, and you want to be prepared for it and you want to be leveraging it, and I think that's the most exciting stuff ever. So, all that to say, I really appreciate this conversation, Dominic. I'm really looking forward to the next time we get together and thank you.
