What If Your Fastest Growth Lever Is Inclusion

A retailer can spend millions driving traffic to a website and still quietly shut out customers at the exact moment that matters most: browsing, adding to cart, and checkout. That’s the uncomfortable truth behind web accessibility, and it’s why we sat down with Imogen Wethered, CEO of EnableAll, to talk about accessibility as a real driver of conversion, loyalty, and long-term growth, not a side project or a checkbox.

We get specific about what accessible e-commerce actually means in practice: screen reader support, keyboard-only navigation, clearer labels and forms, better contrast, captions, reduced motion controls, and tools that let shoppers personalize the experience to their needs. Imogen explains why “silent revenue loss” is so common, how WCAG compliance becomes everyone’s responsibility and therefore nobody’s responsibility, and why brands often only move when enforcement or lived experience forces the issue.

We also dig into the business case with numbers that should wake up any marketing, product, or CX leader. Disabled consumers represent massive purchasing power, and the opportunity online is often invisible because most analytics platforms never flag the customers who bounce due to barriers. We compare adoption to the early GDPR era, unpack the differences between ADA enforcement in the US and the European Accessibility Act, and discuss what it takes to win support from marketing, CTOs, and CFOs, including site speed concerns and ROI storytelling. We close with a challenge: as agentic shopping and AI accelerate experiences, accessibility becomes even more critical because speed exposes weaknesses fast.

If this conversation changes how you think about your website and your customers, subscribe, share it with a teammate, and leave a review so more builders and leaders find it.

Transcript

The ROI Case For Accessibility

SPEAKER_01 0:00

There's a Forester study that shows that for every one dollar invested in accessibility returns$100 in revenue. So that is a a significant ROI on accessibility. And this was a report that is more kind of across the board that's including digital and offline, and I think even at kind of HQ kind of talent level.

What Enable All Builds And Fixes

SPEAKER_00 0:32

Today on Adventures in Customer Land, I'm with Imogen Weathered, who is CEO of a company called Enable All, which I'm debating whether I want to try and describe it. No, let's go with no and let you do a better job, because I'm sure you will. But I want to prompt the listening audience here with um just an encouragement to pay attention to what you hear here today. Because even though I think we're gonna start out in a fairly narrow lane, what Imogen is working on has such broad application to customer engagement that I think everybody listening will get something out of that. So best for me to be quiet, best for you to take over and just and kind of just describe yourself and what you're doing. With all that, thanks for joining me, Imogen. I appreciate it.

SPEAKER_01 1:26

Thank you so much, Mike. Thank you for having me. Yes. So my name is Imogen. I'm the CEO at a company named Enable All. And what we're building is a web accessibility app that retailers, if they install our app, they we will fix the code in their site to make sure their site works better for screen readers and keyboard-only customers. So that's customers who are visually impaired, which represents about 3% of customers with visual impairments that rely on a screen reader and 7% of people who can't use a mouse and rely on using kind of keyboard-only navigation, which is actually becoming more prevalent as people become more technical. They might just be tabbing through a site. So it's kind of has a broader application there. And then in addition, a brand that has our app on it will get a toolbar on their site. Their customers can click a kind of little man icon on the side of the site and open up accessibility preferences where they can do anything such as click on text and translate it into sign language, enable captions on all the videos on the site, stop flashing animations and content if they have epilepsy or vertigo, for example, change the font, change the colours, change the contrast, and basically kind of personalize the experience to their individual needs, which has a massive accessibility use case kind of supporting the one in four customers who have a disability and the one in five that are neurodivergent, but also just generally making kind of browsing easier. Some people may just generally prefer dark mode for a site so we can help with things like that.

Why Accessibility Matters Right Now

SPEAKER_00 2:57

For further context, um, I want to try and answer the question quickly of why this, why now? Um, one reason I can just point out is Global Accessibility Awareness Day is May 21st. Um but beyond the date itself, accessibility and the awareness thereof is becoming um more and more um a part of conversations that I'm having with people who are who are trying to figure out the best ways to engage with their customers. Um so I'd like to try and start with you personally. Um you have a background in all kinds of web stuff, as do I. I'd love to compare notes on that at some point. But what drew you to this particular space?

Why Brands Hesitate And Miss It

SPEAKER_01 3:46

So before this, I was running a company that was doing customer experience for retailers of a different sort. We were helping customers with Q, we were helping brands with Q management. So customers waiting in line and kind of expediting or keeping customers updated while they're waiting in line, as well as enabling customers to book appointments in store, which became more and more important after the COVID pandemic. So that in a way was about kind of customer experience and accessibility, and we had to build accessibility a lot into the product. Uh so I just became more and more passionate about it there. That was kind of in-store tech, which was also quite challenging. So I was keen to move on to something that was helping e-commerce because that's where more and more sales are taking place, but also helping a broader array of customers with real needs and challenges. And then I guess in terms of the broader context of why this way now is brands haven't really thought about the commercial business case associated with making their sites more accessible. And part of the work that we're doing is bringing that to the fore. And we have some really, really exciting data that shows that accessibility does equal growth online. And then on top of that, you have the global laws that are coming in that are mandating um compliance to the web content accessibility guidelines, the WCAG guidelines, uh, of which there are 80 plus different requirements that are very complicated and and can be quite challenging for brands to implement. Um, but uh we are kind of our software is helping brands to become more compliant with these, with these guidelines and to fix issues on their site. Um, so the ADA, which is the Americans with Disabilities Act in the US, is kind of increasing enforcement, growing every year. And then in June this year, you had the European Accessibility Act come in in force in Europe, um, with different countries kind of defining their own um level of enforcement to the extent that in some countries like Ireland, for example, there even there's even like an associated uh criminal conviction or criminal charge with no kidding.

SPEAKER_00 5:52

Wow.

SPEAKER_01 5:53

So uh it's a big, it's a big kind of business case, but also a big problem that brands need to solve.

SPEAKER_00 6:00

You mentioned a moment ago that um that you are developing data points that kind of support this whole thing. And I'm I'm excited to get into those, but I wanted to talk a little bit uh before then about some of the hurdles that this concept in general has faced historically and that you may be facing as you grow your company. Um, there are certainly cultural hurdles. Um personally, I think there is a lack of awareness of the business potential to solving these problems, but I'd love to hear more about that. But you know, when you're talking to your potential clients, you know, is it just that the light bulb goes off immediately and they're going, wow, I never thought of this, let's go do this. Or if they're hesitating, what are they hesitating about?

SPEAKER_01 6:52

I think it's a combination of both. Um, I would actually say primarily the former that people don't realize or think about it. Or um, and I think that they're a bit more advanced in the US where the ADA has been an enforcement, but it's it's more of kind of a compliance checkbox for brands. Um, part of the challenge we see is we think that to date, kind of accessibility has been framed more as kind of a charity kind of social impact thing rather than an actual benefit, kind of business case-driven benefit for brands. And now you've got the the enforcement coming in, which means brands have to move. But I think they kind of still kick their heels because the business, the business case hasn't really been articulated with regards to online accessibility. Um, there's also kind of an unconscious ableism, ableism being kind of people not realizing that um there are these challenges online. It's not kind of deliberate, but most people that don't have these challenges just don't think about it. And it's like the brands that we see take the most action are normally somewhere where the leadership team has some kind of disability connection within their family and close circle, and they tend to move the fastest. So I think once brands are enlightened to it, then they move. But there is that lack of enlightenment and lack of therefore training of people. There's also the complexity of WKAG, which is like 80 different requirements. And within those requirements, like some of the requirements need to be owned by a product person, some of them by designer, some of them by development, and some of them by legal, for example. So that lack of that kind of fragmented ownership, which also means that it's everybody's responsibility and therefore it's nobody's responsibility. Um agencies that are implementing websites for brands, web developers don't often know about it. Um SaaS providers don't kind of stay up to date. So it's it's just kind of complicated. Um but we are seeing this kind of the commercial measurement becoming more and more important. Uh, I think a big, a big business case point is like 17% of people who are disabled are actually born with a disability. 83% of people acquire their disability in their lifetime through illness, injury, aging, for example. So a lot of brands actually have already acquired these customers, but they later acquire the disability and therefore brands aren't supporting them in the same way that they used to be able to. Uh, so I think just enlightening businesses to that will become ever more important.

SPEAKER_00 9:29

Uh I see parallels uh in what you're working on and how kind of GDPR was first brought into the market. I'm thinking back to when, you know, early days of companies here in the US started becoming more aware of the idea that it needed to be doing, be more sensitive with their users' members, customers' uh data. And then it was forced upon them through GDPR and the like. But even then, adoption wasn't immediate until they started feeling the teeth in those regulations. You know, there were real genuine penalties. It had to become an economic case, you know, either the a carrot or a stick. And um, you know, GDPR didn't really have a built-in carrot, so to speak. You had to really look for it. On the other hand, what you're working on, the the carrot, I think, the the real benefit here is quite obvious. So I'd be interested in if it's even possible at this point, uh, in the trajectory of what you're working on. What is adoption? What do adoption rates look like here? Are you are you kind of dealing with the same kind of general, I'll say malaise hesitancy that companies are are just, you know, yeah, this is a cool thing. Yes, it's it's compliance. We'll check the box when we need to check it. Or how quickly do they get the the real business benefit and decide I'm gonna I'm gonna bite this hook because this is good for me?

SPEAKER_01 11:14

I would say it is slower uptake than it was with GDPR, where I think people were more aware of GDPR in the run-up to it. I think a lot of people actually didn't even realize the EAA came in. Part of that being that it uh related to kind of new content, um, whereas GDPR was kind of a catch-all on everything. But you're but now as it as it comes into force, like more and more people, it kind of relates to more content because all content on the web is new. Um, I think with GDPR, there was that big threat that it was like X percent of revenue is the fine. Um, but you're right. And so the the uh the different uh enforcements in the different countries have only really just been published in the last few months and been evolving. Uh so has that become clearer? But I think that kind of 1% of revenue with GDPR was like the real big fear factor that drove everyone, whereas there's been less of that. But you're right that GDPR didn't have that same carrot that accessibility does. And that carrot being that you're making your site better for the one in four customers who who may run into challenges with an image not appearing visible enough because the contrast is too low, or um an im an image not having a description on it, so a screen reader user can't understand it.

SPEAKER_00 12:31

I might even put that a little bit more um forcefully and say that um, you know, a company that's spending X millions of dollars to acquire, activate, and retain customers is effectively ignoring what was it, 25%-ish, plus or minus, yeah, um, of their customer base, and um and ignoring may not even be strong enough yet. What what they're effectively doing, depending on the nature of the disability, uh, might be just shutting them out.

SPEAKER_01 13:05

Yeah, exactly. Yeah, that's that's kind of one of our insights that we're trying to try to encourage brands on a very, very good point. Thank you for spotting that.

SPEAKER_00 13:15

So I'd love to cherry pick a few a few data points uh and just talk them through. We've touched on a few here. Um one is today, disabled Americans control an estimated$490 billion in disposable income. Um, globally disabled purchasing power is an estimated$8 trillion. I don't care what context you live and work in, those are big, big numbers. And if you're in retail, and I don't care what niche, I don't care how big you are, that has to get your attention. And yet, I can tell you, as somebody who tries hard to pay attention to the business and media trends, these data points have um, I have never seen them before. And that that's I'm taking partial blame for that. But on the other hand, I just think it's a topic that's just been underplayed and we're under-indexing on in US media.

SPEAKER_01 14:13

Definitely, I agree. And and those are those are huge numbers. And what we call, yeah, it's basically but it's it's a bit of a blind spot. Um, we find that part of that is because the revenue loss is silent. So it sits outside of mainstream analytics. Like people know their C their kind of convergent rate optimization and their marketing reporting. But when a disabled visitor hits a barrier on the site, nothing gets recorded. So there's no sale or attribution. Um, there's no CRO alert, there's there's no kind of thing telling them that they lost that customer. Um but yeah, exactly as you say, uh, inaccessibility erodes kind of uh risks eroding 25% of marketing spend if one in four customers can't purchase. And brands are paying to acquire these customers, so you might as well just be throwing that kind of every 24 cents in a dollar.

SPEAKER_00 15:05

A quarter of your spend has now been completely wasted.

SPEAKER_01 15:08

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 15:10

I I'm purposely making these in big statements because I want somebody to pay attention to this. With the Nable All case studies, they're finding instances of a retailer that improved website conversion by 46% simply by making the site more accessible for the one in four people who live with uh with a disability. Um okay, as a contrarian slash cynic, I want to know wait a minute, was that a website that was dedicated to um uh disabled functions and services? Um, or would you call that more of a mainstream case study? Because that's a that's a big difference. Conversion rate improved by 46%. That's like giving away free money to people.

SPEAKER_01 15:51

Yeah, so they were in part a bit of both. So the the founder had lived experience of disability, and so she was creating jewelry for customers. Um, but they do have a lot of customers who don't necessarily have disabilities, a lot of neurodivergent as well customers. So, yes, there is a part of that. Um, we have been recently analyzing data with a uh various other brands, including kind of premium luxury retailers, where they've actually found that three to six that their conversion rate of customers that use the toolbar on our site, on their site, and then convert to a purchase is three to six times higher than industry benchmark conversion of just a regular visitor on the site that's not engaging with the toolbar.

SPEAKER_00 16:41

Wow.

SPEAKER_01 16:42

So it doesn't necessarily show that the tool, well, we we the tool is increasing conversion because it also the percentage of customers that purchased something was higher than the percentage of customers that purchased something through the site. Um but we it does show also that there is a significant need for the tool and that customers that use the tool are very likely to purchase something.

Proving Lift With Tool Usage

SPEAKER_00 17:07

You mentioned a little earlier on that um one of the hurdles is that the the loss ineffectiveness, whatever you want to call it, of uh of the sites in these cases aren't really visible. There's there's no real standard mechanisms that companies have of gauging utility and adoption from you know people who may might be disabled uh in one way or another. As someone who lives and breathes these solutions every day, how do you change that? Are there are there tools, are there are there measurements, KPIs, are there uh you know, I think you know, um enable all creates a solution set, but are there things that companies could deploy and implement internally that would create that awareness of the inefficiencies of their current systems, of the lack of adoption by uh disabled or neurodivergent people? What can companies, you know, if you were, I guess if you had a megaphone right into the C-suite of all these retailers, how would you get them to become aware of this?

SPEAKER_01 18:34

Well, so I think number one is it's data that our tools can start to give people. So we we know that the top most used feature on our site is sign language translations um across any retail brand that we work with. So it's data that we're starting to collect. But I think really to really enrich that data, brands do need to engage, and particularly the big brands do need to kind of engage proper testing companies that have customers with disabilities who are testing their websites and giving them that feedback so they know where the gaps are. Um, beyond that, I actually haven't really thought much about what other tools could allow them to see where the gaps are and um and where things like where customers are dropping off. But there are lots of audit tools out there where you can also see what the gaps are on your site in terms of an accessibility perspective.

SPEAKER_00 19:25

Is there such a thing? This is a dumb question. I may just edit it out, but is there such a thing as an identifier that a disabled or neurodivergent user might have? Call it a cookie set or something that might identify them on a site as a user that requires different accessibility measures. Um, does that kind of a tool exist? If it doesn't, maybe it doesn't because it would infringe on data privacy and you know personal issues, or is is that a thing?

SPEAKER_01 20:01

It's an interesting one. I mean, people would have disability and sorry, people would have kind of accessibility tools on their site, on their browsers, et cetera. So we may be able to see if brands can can capture some of that data without um with uh on kind of an anonymous basis.

Measuring Gaps With Testing And Audits

SPEAKER_00 20:20

Very interesting. Um again, you kind of touched on this a little earlier, saying that the the US is might be a little further ahead in the awareness of these issues because of ADA, et cetera. Um I'm interested how that has translated into your sales experience here versus in UK, Europe. Um you you being London-based, yeah, you know, outreach is what it is there, but it's long distance outreach over here. So what's that what's that like? How's it going?

SPEAKER_01 20:50

So correct. In the US, it's a lot more about compliance and check boxes, or brands may have a lot of them, may have already had had a lawsuit against them. Um the difference is in the the bodies enforcing it. So in the US, you have uh like a plaintiff firm who will find someone with a disability and raise a claim on their behalf against a retail, a retailer. And that will often result in a settlement that the brand has to pay to the law firm and the plaintiff. Um, and then they're given kind of the list of things that they need to fix. Um, whereas in the in Europe, it's kind of more enforced at a governance level, government level. Uh so it's quite different, but we're also finding because the law is new, it's only come in in June. Brands still aren't fully caught up to what they need to do. So, right now the conversation, whereas in the US it's primarily about compliance with a bit about the kind of sales benefit. In Europe, it's a lot more about the customer experience and and that benefit.

SPEAKER_00 22:59

So your tool set um fixes a website that I'm simplifying badly. And that's that's gonna live within uh marketing or possibly product, depending on the company. But the solution that you're presenting has application, has legs, and probably even has requirements that extend well beyond that into different parts of the organization. I'm thinking of CX. I'm thinking of uh loyalty by extension of whatever happens on the website, um, and all of these other other places where enable all's solution set should should have its tentacles into.

SPEAKER_01 23:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 23:46

Um so is do you normally start a conversation at at marketing and then it spreads, or is there a let me be a little more pointed here? Is there a CX first conversation to be had, or would you consider that kind of ancillary set of requirements and benefits?

SPEAKER_01 24:03

It's definitely a CX conversation. I would find our main conversations will start at kind of a digital slash e-commerce type role and market, or sometimes it's marketing. Um, customer experience. I think if if a brand has like a CXO, then that becomes very relevant. Sometimes customer experience is more kind of slotted into the digital or or uh omni-channel team.

SPEAKER_00 24:28

Again, we touched on this a little bit, but I think it's it's vitally important, especially as you're trying to build awareness for these concepts and issues and and potential benefits. What do business cases look for look like? And how do we how do we tell those stories? Um, let's elaborate on it. Let's let's unpack that. What what other stories, narratives exist out on the marketplace that either you've sponsored or somebody else in the space is looking at? Can we talk about a little bit?

SPEAKER_01 24:58

Yeah, sure. So there's a a Forester study that shows that for every one dollar invested in accessibility returns$100 in revenue. So that is a significant ROI on accessibility. And this was a report that is more kind of across the board that's including digital and offline, and and I think even at the kind of HQ kind of talent level as well.

SPEAKER_00 25:24

So they if if did they um dive deeper at all into the specific solutions, or was it just kind of a a broad um high-level statement?

Selling Internally To Marketing Tech Finance

SPEAKER_01 25:36

Um I would have to read the report again to tell you, but I can I can share it across.

SPEAKER_00 25:41

No worries.

SPEAKER_01 25:42

Um, but I think it's it just demonstrates that there's kind of significant opportunity sitting in in the PL. And with more and more of retail going online, it just shows that. So what is it? Like it's 20, 20% of sales happen online globally now. So more of that relates to e-commerce. But there's no actual conversion data or accessibility ROI data specifically on e-commerce, and that's what we're working with our clients to prove and hopefully bring to market sometime.

SPEAKER_00 26:14

I want to talk about your interactions with the CTOs of the world, um, whom I I'm gonna make a broad generalization here, uh, but because I talk to so many technology providers, um these projects tend to live and die. If you can sell it into the to the appropriate kind of first channel, which is often marketing, um then it has to roll into, in one form or another, the technology um operation. And um, that's its own set of challenges. And then it becomes an acid test at the CFO's office where they're either going to rubber stamp this and approve it as a purchase, or they're gonna say, show me the ROI. And um, and that's where so many of these uh my very smart and able colleagues who run great companies with with brilliant technologies, but if you can't show a very, very direct connection to the bottom line, it's a very tough sell. So let's start with the the marketing organization. Um, how long does it take for a typical marketing organization to kind of get it for their light bulb to go off? And then we'll talk about the technology people and then we'll talk about the this the um financial people.

SPEAKER_01 27:39

So I would say marketing is actually very quick. Uh they get it, they get that the site may have challenges, they get that a web agency has built the solution that may not get accessibility, and they understand that it's challenging to police and enforce all the things that need to be done to maintain or kind of build WCAG alliance uh conformance. So, for example, um running marketing, it can be really hard to know that your content people are going to add alt text to every image image and that your web developers are gonna label every button and every form on the site, which is stuff that our platform is doing in the back end automatically. So it gives them that kind of assurance that this extra piece is is managed without them having to do anything, uh, as well as the fact that customers like it and it it kind of enables them to keep their brand intact while also enabling customers to personalize their experience online. So they get it. Uh and then you said the next role was the CTOs.

SPEAKER_00 28:36

Let's roll up into the technology operation.

SPEAKER_01 28:39

So CTOs, CTOs tend to get it as well because they understand that there's certain things they need to do. Um, it's kind of built by web developers and they may not be doing it. The big concern is on the site slowdown. Um, that that's obviously their biggest concern. And what we've built is a tool that doesn't slow down the site because what we're doing is we're fixing a lot of the WCAG gaps at code level, whereas previous tools in the market are fixing it at kind of a surface level script level. So they're kind of injecting a script on the surface, and that can slow down the site. Whereas we're going in with the code level fixes in order to keep the site really lean and really fast.

SPEAKER_00 29:17

Um that implies that that what you're what you're doing becomes kind of a universal solution. So it's so this isn't kind of it's no longer I'm probably got this way wrong, but it's not a toggleable uh change then by the user. This is this becomes a universal solution set for all users, is that correct?

SPEAKER_01 29:40

Yes, exactly. Yeah, yeah. And that's the thing, is like accessibility isn't a one size fits all uh fits all, or as one of our our users that are one of our blind kind of advocates said, we're not a monolith, we're not a checkbox. And so they really like the ability to kind of customize the preferences to their needs.

SPEAKER_00 30:00

Interesting. So what happens when you bring all this to the um to the CFO?

SPEAKER_01 30:06

So when we bring it to the CFO, I think they they because of the compliance case, it's kind of a no-brainer. It does, but we like to try and measure the business case benefit as well. Because from my previous remit in my key management company, it was really key that we were able to produce that kind of business case data. So that for me is something that I really want to have for the CFOs, but um, it is kind of a no-brainer. And and as a CFO kind of CF COO, they are interested in the the operations kind of compliance side just as much.

AI Risks And A Practical Call To Action

SPEAKER_00 30:40

Good. I mean, so um I I normally wouldn't ask those questions so directly, but I kind of sense that the answers would all be very positive.

SPEAKER_01 30:47

So good. That's a good question. The fact that we've got 5% of people who are purchasing on one of our clients' site are actually using the toolbar before they do so shows that this has real utility. I think one of our challenges at the moment is a lot of brands are thinking, oh, how do I use agentic retail shopping experiences and conversational AI and AI-driven recommendations and AI this and AI that? And our view uh is that those technologies would just be enabling the already enabled. And if you don't, if you're not enabling those that need it the most, that's kind of 24% of the population, then I think it just risks causing more issues on the site and also adding insult to injury to a group of customers who feel undervalued and underserved.

SPEAKER_00 31:41

Yeah, I think one of the things is becoming clear, and we're having many, many conversations about it, is the power of agenda AI is wild. It's just, you know, the ability to accelerate decisioning, decision-making, purchasing, and that whole uh that whole chain is is unbelievable. But the the other side of that is that it exposes your weaknesses very, very quickly as well. Whereas you may have been able to kind of uh shovel them under the rug or just not pay attention to them, they become glaringly obvious if you operate at that kind of speed. Really interested to see how Enable All is going to navigate that or at least tell the story on top of that. So really interesting.

SPEAKER_01 32:22

One other thing that I wanted to add as kind of a call to action for brands is I go to a lot of events now with the disability community, and the overwhelming message that I hear at every event is that people are really, really grateful for the effort the brands do make, um, particularly as you kind of see it in some of the bigger brands. But the overwhelming message is that there's not enough being done, and web accessibility isn't a new thing. It's been around for years, it's been a conversation for years, and and people always feel just so underwhelmed by what has been the effort that has been taken. Um and online specifically, it feels most unacceptable because you've got customers who are unable to access physical stores, they rely on online. So there's a kind of disproportionate spread of customers who want to access these services online. Tim Berners-Lee, for example, said the power of the web is in its universality. And um I think therefore, like the business case for action is that doing something small still gets noticed. And just starting somewhere, that's always the message that the community has is start somewhere. Just don't do nothing. Don't start nowhere. You have to just do something because a small act goes a long way. And it it really, really builds loyalty. It also helps SEO, uh, which is another big benefit. Uh, and it helps customers be able to purchase what they need and check out.

SPEAKER_00 33:47

Well, Imogen, I really appreciate this. I think I think what you're doing is spectacular one on a personal level. I'm just really honored that we get to talk. But more than that, I want to call my my listeners uh to uh the awareness that Global Accessibility Awareness Day is May 21st. We're gonna publish this episode uh just prior to that date, but it'll live on the site forever and ever and ever in perpetuity. So please refer back to this because I think that over the coming months and years, accessibility awareness is gonna take on a whole new level of visibility and importance, especially as you just said, Imogen, there's 25% of your customer-oriented spend that's essentially being wasted right now. So um again, thank you for this. Thanks for what you're doing. We will absolutely be paying attention uh to enable all in the coming months. And uh for listeners, I'll have a link to Enable All at uh the site and anywhere you find this within the podcast distribution world, you'll see that link as well. But um, Imogen, thanks.

SPEAKER_01 34:57

Thank you very much for having me, Mike.